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Jedan od autora, kojî su se takvom tematîkom bavili, O’Casey, i pored toga što je bio marksista, uvek je takve licnosti tretirao kao nesto, što na neki način ne spada nigde. Cak je i Arthur Miller napisao komad u kojem opisuje jednu neohicnu lienost, i to je jedino njegovo delo koję me interesuje: »Smrt trgovačkog putnika«. U njemu je ta lienost vrlo komplikovana i kontr adikt orna, tako da se na kraju ne zna, о сети se и tom komadu radi, ali u tome i jeste njegov kvalitet. Iz istih razloga nalazim daje Čehov hiljadu puta bolji, inter es antniji i umetnički vredniji od Ibsena. Ali me Ibsen i pored toga fascinira, jer je podlost takvog Ibsena nešto, što je и meni odmek izazivalo stanje krajnje napetosti. » Znaci, imali ste opet protivnika pred sobom?« Tako je. (Iz izv estoja Clausa Meyer sa sa gostovanja hamburškog pozorišta »Thalia« sa »Marijom Stjuart « и Rusiji: »A pośle toga zakuska sa glumeima. Vodka pomaže da se savlada zamor. Hamburški vetrovi duvaju и ovim noénim satima sve do Lenjingrada. Gerhard Friedrich ( Graf von Leicester ) sa puno patosa govori protiv Zadekovog »Otela«; da bi to negodovanje postało razumljivo ruskim kolegama, traži da se hit no do vede tumač.) (Theater heute, 7. 7. 1976) § y And how do you . щ Й'Ъ manage, working Ęs M Ш/ without sets? Ц anarchy The sets grow, they grow out of necessity. I do work with a stage designer and he is always present at the rehearsals it’s exhausting. My present stage designer, Peter Papst, who up to now has only done costumes and for » Othello « did the costumes and the decor with me, he is present from 10 WF in the morning until the end у of the rehearsal every day. He sees everything that happens, f • He takes part in /1 j f /y f} Ê1 Tt fy C ever y as P ect °f the Я Ш JLs С' - ('('l *3 work even when we ** ' r are working on the text. In fact with » Othello « we worked on the text only for days on end, changing the translation and modifying the text and what have you, and he was there the whole time, although it didn’t directly concern him, and he pays attention and makes suggestions and notices that in the play the role of a little whore evolves in such and such a direction and then the next day brings in fifteen different types of hats and fifteen skirts and fifteen pairs of shoes and puts them down and if the girl doesn’t put them on herself he makes suggestions. But they all do it themselves because it is fun for them, I think they
get a terrific kick out of it. Wildgruber is always there three quarters of an hour early and starts putting make-up on. He has put make-up on ever since the third rehearsal, using all the variations one can possibly find to paint oneself like a Negro. Then, for instance, we noticed that the make-up came off. And it became an essential element of the production. Does that mean that the make-up comes off? Yes, make up comes off, so black make-up comes off. And that should be noticeable? Yes. I remember once I saw a 19th century advertisement for soap. There was a small baby, a black baby that was being put into a tub, and there was some soap or something beside it. And then in the next picture, the baby was being taken out and was white. And since lam very preoccupied with people’s prejudices, in this case about the Blacks, the question that every white child asks: » When you touch a Negro, Mummy, does it come off?« will certainly remain a part of this production. And I think these things stay with us until we are very old and they are chewed over and stifled and have a lot to do with the way we behave towards Black people. It starts as a joke. I can imagine if I were an actor and was going to play a Negro, then the first fun I would have as an actor would be to paint myself black, there is no question about it. And then to play around, think what it really means —to paint oneself, what it means to be a Black, what is a black man for example, what is this wicked black man? Those are all thoughts which all of us working on Othello have been living with for months. They make us do such absurd things, like for instance when the Negro puts a black mask on his face to hide himself — a black carnival mask, don’t ask me what that means, I don’t know myself, it just fits into the situation. In the works of other directors I mention again Noelte and Stein I always feel a great need for beauty, really even a need for harmony. In your productions I notice something quite different —an interest in ugliness and a delight in disharmony. That is right. This is perhaps a stupid question. The last couple of years you have lived in Bochum, which is supposed to be a very ugly city. Doesn’t it worry you to live in an ugly city? Or, do you find beautiful cities beautiful? That is a good question. It doesn’t worry me to live in an ugly city. For instance, I was very unhappy in Munich. And probably I would be even unhappier in Salzburg. I don’t feel at all well in this sort of beauty. Really I feel best —at least of the German cities I know —in Hamburg, because it has a harbour and because there is a lot of dirt and because there are curious things there that fascinate me. There are also some very orderly districts in Hamburg. I don’t often go to them (although I live in one). No, what fascinates me is the confusion and chaos, although lam really by nature a very careful person. I don’t fight in bars and am really not at all a person who leads a hectic life, but my imagination is chaotic and crazy enough. What really interests me are the discrepancies, the things that don’t match that you have already noticed quite rightly. The same in art. lam very interested in manneristic art and that is why lam scarcely interested in the theatre. The last time the theatre interested me
That is right.